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The Future of Payments

The rapid convergence of finance functions has accelerated discussions about payment optimization. Eric White, COO of Emburse, and Rajeev Subramanyam, GM of Emburse Pay, explore the biggest B2B payment challenges organizations face and how to overcome them. You’ll learn how to build a case for frictionless transfers that give greater control and visibility over spending.

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Season 2 Episode 1

Grant Johnson, CMO at Emburse: [00:00:00] Hi, I'm Grant Johnson, chief marketing officer at Emburse. Welcome to Emburse on the Mic, a podcast series where we dig into the topics that impact our business and lives, managing expenses, processing invoices, making payments and discovering ways to eliminate those time-consuming, error-prone manual tasks to help make our lives easier. Our website is Emburse.com. And if you'd like to share your thoughts on this episode, you can reach us at hi at Emburse.com. That's HI@Emburse.com. As we discussed in season one, Emburse humanizes work for our customers. Today we're kicking off the second season entitled, C Suite Thinking, designed for executives and their teams. We'll explore key industry topics, best practices, and learnings to help companies innovate, grow and increase employee satisfaction by applying modern spend management practices. With me today is Eric White, chief operating officer at Emburse. As COO, Eric is responsible for all of our business units serving customer segments and geographies. Eric has a broad range of technology leadership experience. I'm also joined by Rajeev Subramanyam. He's the senior vice president, general manager of Emburse Pay. Rajeev leads all payments innovation efforts for Emburse and is responsible for developing integrated payment experiences to enhance the Emburse product suite. Eric Rajeev. We'll explore the biggest B2B payment challenges organizations now face and how to overcome them. Eric and Rajeev, welcome, and thanks for joining today.

Eric White, COO at Emburse: [00:01:41] Great to be here.

Rajeev Subramanyam, SVP and GM at Emburse Pay: [00:01:41] Thanks for having us.

Grant Johnson, CMO at Emburse: [00:01:43] Let's start out here, Eric. You know, as the COO, I'm sure managing spend is one of the many topics on your mind. I'd love to have you start off with your thoughts on that process at Emburse.

Eric White, COO at Emburse: [00:01:54] Yeah, sure, Grant. So you're right, managing spend is often on my mind. And in 2020, it was on perhaps more than previous years. So, spend mattered a lot in 2020. And I think it's fair to say the pandemic really put a spotlight on cash flow and the cost side of the P&L. Everywhere I've been and had jobs at in the past, it's really been difficult to get a real-time view on spend. And the early pandemic created a lot of uncertainty and really caused us to tighten our belts a little bit. So for us, that risk constraining growth, which we certainly didn't want to do. So we worked really hard to find the sweet spot. We're about nine hundred employees and Emburse that's employees and contractors. And, you know, like a lot of companies, we're going to exit Covid a lot more decentralized than when we entered. We received invoices at more than eight offices and it creates an opportunity for a lot of invisible vendor spend. So we're working to put a better visibility process around how how we pay and really how we manage that process. So, you know, globally, it's not just an Emburse problem. We're paying each others' companies one hundred and twenty seven trillion dollars a year. And what's crazy is that it costs two point seven trillion dollars just to make those payments.

Rajeev Subramanyam, SVP and GM at Emburse Pay: [00:03:14] It's about two and a half percent of G&A cost, adding G&A cost just to make payments. And that doesn't include the actual cost to pay commissions or card or payments or anything like that. It's really just our own internal operating costs to do that. So 60 percent, what's even crazier is that 60 percent of those payments are made by check. I can't remember the last time I wrote a personal check, but in business, we do it every day and I think we get numb to it. So it was an example. I was talking to a CFO at a law firm and during the conversation he kept looking down and I realized that he was signing checks. And so we asked him when he held up the pile for me to look and it was really thick. And so that prompted me to look into our own AP team and we weren't really much better. So I'm happy to say we're piloting a full-stack payment capability in our finance right now and we're going to launch this spring. So we're really excited about the improvements that I think could pandemic and the focus that that put on cash is really causing us to make.

Grant Johnson, CMO at Emburse: [00:04:13] Well, Eric, it's great to hear that we're automating. That'll help us help our customers as they embrace their own journey to reduce the manual time-consuming tasks that don't add a lot of value to the business payments has been really a topic that just keeps getting hotter. But especially in the last few years, it's obvious that a pandemic is had influence. You can't go to offices to cut checks if you're still doing the manually, as Eric said. But why now, Rajeev?

Rajeev Subramanyam, SVP and GM at Emburse Pay: [00:04:45] Yeah, it's surprising because payments is a very big opportunity. Eric mentioned, in fact, B2B payment is five times the size of consumer retail, so one hundred and twenty seven trillion [dollars]. So it should have been the focal point for many years. But what has happened is, ironically, the pandemic has been an accelerant. Historically, many customers have been slow to tackle these challenges, either due to complexity or the cost of available solutions or just simple inertia. They have many things to focus on. But what has been clear is the pandemic has driven a lot of change. The inefficiency and the cost associated with payments has become much more clear, and the work done leading up to the pandemic where businesses realized, wow, there's a big opportunity and we need to educate customers about it. That awareness leading up to the pandemic has only been turbocharged by the pandemic. So now that the pandemic has been enlivened, Emburse's own story, already talked about, but we have changed the process. It's now a necessity and we've done that. So it was a buildup happening throughout the course of these years. But now executives who may have been interested have made it a necessity because they can no longer do what they did in the past. No longer can they walk down the corridor and talk to AP, money managers, controllers, and coordinating the simple tasks, that's no longer possible. All that has to be done virtually. So the pandemic really, really has accelerated the change, which is probably already underway over the few years.

Rajeev Subramanyam, SVP and GM at Emburse Pay: [00:06:09] And now it's very clear if you are cutting checks in a big way, it's always very clear you have to automate that. And you can streamline the processes in a very significant way. Also, technology has become a lot better. So the advent of many cloud-based solutions, real-time payments, cross-border payments, it's just enabling things you just could not do in the past. So that's another reason why a combination of the pandemic and technology has really put some fuel to a fire, I guess, if that's the word to use here. Finally, I'd say a new trend also emerged in the middle of the pandemic, which is the decentralization of what we call long tail spend. And what I mean by that is as employees went home, they realized and they started spending their own money to buy things for the office. So things like subscriptions, AWS, Amazon Web services and getting reimbursed. And so what happened overnight was this new category of spending was created, and that itself creates the need for creating new solutions to help solve customer needs. And also the manager needs to manage and control payments. So in effect and summarize all of this, it's not too dissimilar from what you see on the consumer side and e-commerce where e-commerce is happening and building up over the years. But just in the last year, it's actually many times over. And the same thing is happening in B2B payments.

Grant Johnson, CMO at Emburse: [00:07:28] Yeah, that's fascinating. We're going to come to the long tail spend here in a minute. But given this acceleration of the digital transformation of which you say the Office of the Finance and a lot of businesses, how do you guys see the convergence of finance functions and how it's impacting the way businesses operate? Maybe, Eric, you could start.

Rajeev Subramanyam, SVP and GM at Emburse Pay: [00:07:47] Sure. You know, we're all operating in really hyper-competitive environments. And so there's a lot of pressure on executives of all flavors to control Gené spend and invest in other areas like R&D or sales, you know, things that produce for the company and help a company grow. So when we look at a financial office, there's a lot of things that are happening in there that are really manual and repetitive work and they're expensive. So I have two daughters and I think if I asked them what they wanted to be when they grew up, I have asked them that. And I would have been really disappointed if they would have said that when I'm older, I want to spend my time chasing employees to submit expense reports, babysitting manual check runs and pulling information from multiple systems for a presentation. It's not really fulfilling work for most, and we're really working hard to fix that.

Rajeev Subramanyam, SVP and GM at Emburse Pay: [00:08:41] And then if I can just add to that, what's happened is a little necessity. But but at the same time that a modern CFO is an AP a department needs who are no longer reviewing payments has a tedious task, but thinking about, "how can I convert it as a growth lever for the company?" So payments is very unique in the sense that you can save time and money by building automation around it and do work and optimize the spend. And also get and generate revenue and insights for for your company. And that's where the modern folks are really looking at the finance function, really looking at areas of turning the this into a growth opportunity. And what's happening, interestingly, is that one on the one hand, the CFO is thinking about cash flow in and out. On the other hand, it's AP departments are thinking about inefficiency. And now the opportunity exists for both to happen in a convergent way. And so, yes, they have to collaborate the CFO on the AP department, that objectives might be slightly different. But what's amazing is that the similar solutions can address both the CFO needs and the AP needs and folks who are leaning forward to think about how can I make this better and spend my time where it's needed more. This just creates a whole new opportunity. And so that's how modern businesses are leveraging the latest technology to change. They are and create more opportunities for growth.

Eric White, COO at Emburse: [00:10:01] That's a great point, Rajeev.

Grant Johnson, CMO at Emburse: [00:10:02] Yeah, that is I mean, this modern spend management approach, as you mentioned, really helps drive the convergence of these different functions and the overall benefit of the business. A minute ago, you mentioned this emergence of long-tail spend, and I'm not sure our audience has heard that phrase or that frame before. Can you break it down for us and how it differs from other types of spend they may have heard of?

Rajeev Subramanyam, SVP and GM at Emburse Pay: [00:10:25] This is just a fascinating topic, and I love to talk about it because almost every customer I've talked to has mentioned this. I just give you an example. It's happened a few days ago. Our CTO sent a note on a channel saying, hey, no longer should you be buying computers on your own personal card. But what happened is employees had to do that when they were stuck at home and couldn't and buy equipment or cables or whatever it might be from Staples. And so spend is really changing. It was really simple in the past where employees were responsible for what we call travel and expense spend and the procurement finance teams were handling everything else. But now that increasingly companies book with a different set of vendors and employees are initiating a lot of the spend and driven largely by tech forward companies. But it's true across most companies that spend is an employee initiative. And so procurement is getting decentralized. And we see that as our own Emburse data and our own spend. We see more spend on advertising software, subscriptions, events, and these ships have really, really accelerated. So employees are taking control of spending and out of the hands of procurement to some degree. While that's great, what's challenging is for companies that we need something new to address this this kind of spend is not well suited to a burdensome process like an invoice based process. And even reimbursements don't really work because reimbursements you have to reimburse the employee for this and they don't get out of pocket money spent on this. And then corporate cards have limitations as well. So basically there's limitations and visibility, control and flexibility. And so a new category of spend has emerged and there are very few solutions which address this need. And that's why we're really excited to think about the problem for customers and create new solutions around it.

Grant Johnson, CMO at Emburse: [00:12:09] That's interesting. So, Eric, what do you think companies struggle with this area of spending?

Eric White, COO at Emburse: [00:12:14] Yeah, I think the challenge is that it's really a high volume of expenses that are at a relatively low dollar amount per transaction and it just flies below the radar. This is pretty typical for a leader to look at a P&L and see that spending is up or down and really not know why. And so if that spend you know, if you don't know if it's creating value, you don't know you don't know if it's because of timing issues or if it's down because of timing issues in that you're going to be hit next month with a huge event. So it's really just too hard to find out. And so a lot of leaders, you know, they hope for the best and they move on. You know, at Emburse, we're learning to change that dynamic. It's not an Emburse story really that I want to tell. But at a previous employer, we actually really got serious about managing this long-tail spend and improved EBIDTA by quite a bit. The process helped us ask a lot of "why questions" and ultimately stopped a lot of non-value-add stuff. That was a big contributor to a six percent boost in profitability over about a year period. So it can be really material if you have the discipline and the tools to manage it. And it's a big opportunity to improve. And so Emburse we're creating the tools that help folks do that.

Rajeev Subramanyam, SVP and GM at Emburse Pay: [00:13:31] If I can just add to that to Eric's point of first, that the category of spend is actually becoming quite low dollar, high frequency, but could add up to up to 50 percent of a company spending. So it's becoming very, very material to a company. And I think one of the main challenges is that the different stakeholders have different needs. So the employee wants flexibility and not out of pocket. The manager the leader wants productivity but wants some budgeting around it. And then the CFO, the administrator, they want more control and visibility. So how do you accomplish all is what companies are struggling with and they usually go towards one or the other, depending on the risk levels and tolerance and alone over time. But but again, with modern technology, I think what I feel good about is now we can put things together to solve all constituents needs as opposed to just solving the one constant need. And that was the we have the best. And that I feel really good about how we can create solutions for all.

Eric White, COO at Emburse: [00:14:24] Rajeev, that was a big surprise for me a few years ago, and really started focusing on this just in terms of how material it can be. Know, I mentioned it was six percent profitability change. I would say managing the long-tail expense, It was the major contributor that led to led to that increase.

Grant Johnson, CMO at Emburse: [00:14:44] Well, that's very, very encouraging. And not everyone outside of finance is close to the term EBIDTA. I think everybody is close to the term profitability and the ways that you can automated increased profitability. But what about outside of the finance department, for both of you. How does automating this entire AP process benefit everyone else at the organization?

Eric White, COO at Emburse: [00:15:07] Yeah, I can take that Grant. I think in in the company that I just mentioned in my experience there, and actually kept us from having to cut some programs that were pretty value creating in it, you know, honestly, it probably saved a few a few jobs as well. So when I think about what happened in Emburse when the pandemic first hit, we planned out various disaster scenarios. And we we felt a tremendous amount of responsibility to make sure that we had our spend under control. And I personally strongly feel that it's a failure of leadership when you have to make decisions that impact people's lives or say no to value creating programs that are going to help the company grow. It's a failure of leadership when you do that without having your own spend management house in order. So part of humanizing work, which we're all about here at Emburse, is to provide tools for leaders really in the best position possible when making investment decisions, really any kind and making sure that we can do it without hurting the growth of a company, or I guess better said, enabling the growth of the company and making sure that we're putting people in the best spots to be successful.

Rajeev Subramanyam, SVP and GM at Emburse Pay: [00:16:12] If I can build on that, truly automating the end-to-end what we call the procure-to-pay process and benefit more constituents by bringing down processing costs, cycle times and visibility in the spend management had a much greater level than doing it piecemeal or one piece alone. So yes, you can. And for example, an organization can just do invoice automation and that's fine. And there's value in that for sure. But the AP department where the chief benefits of less paper and faster approval. However, when you automate the entire procure to pay process and if you don't have just an automated procurement automated payment process, the gains of what I just implemented, which is the invoice automation, may be limited to that department, but when you automate every part of the step, there's tremendous value beyond just the inefficiency of that particular step, which is faster approval times or less paper here. If you automate the end-to-end process, you can synchronize data flowing across all the departments and that reduces errors across the board. You can improve employee productivity, not just the AP department productivity, because it allows them to focus on more value-added tasks. And finally, you can have influence as decision-makers, executives focus on spend management more holistically, then looking at excessive costs by cutting down paper. I am happy to say that even in voice, automation will help you and there's no reason not to do that. But end-to-end automation can help even more and help the broader organization.

Grant Johnson, CMO at Emburse: [00:17:37] Yeah, I love that you both touched on the more holistic process to that phrase that Eric used about, "getting your spend management house in order." I mean, you can fix the leaky roof or you can the broken screen door that goes to the backyard. But if you adopt this modern spend management approach across your entire procure-to-pay cycle, it sounds like the benefits can be very significant. What other benefits do you see from having the payments in the spend management together in a single platform?

Rajeev Subramanyam, SVP and GM at Emburse Pay: [00:18:09] Yeah, think about this. If you have it in one platform, it just can be so many services. Let me just bring it to life with a few examples. One is just reconciliation. You know, that lovely task. You have to do it every month. If you have a disconnected process and you keep your invoice and payment and ERP data in all different places. They aren't communicating to each other and that's where you have a lot more errors. But if you had one source and system of record would easily manage your vouchers, approve purchase orders, pay vendors, and then you can simplify the entire accounts payable automation process from remittance to reconciliation all in one place or reconciliation at the end of the month becomes a lot easier. The other, I would say, is just cash flow optimization. So today, if you just have payments, automation and that's the you've already agreed to pay these payments and these invoices and Tallie, then you think we execute this payment file and that's all good about. But imagine if you had this all together. A true one-stop shop for AP automation would give them an opportunity to optimize the entire process from getting APIs and be approved while executing payments. And so that allows you to do is decide when to pay as opposed to just click to pay and make the payment on the invoice. You can choose which vendors to pay when, at what terms, and all in one visible place. They can make choices, which you wouldn't have if you were just looking at sending a payment file and making the payments.

Rajeev Subramanyam, SVP and GM at Emburse Pay: [00:19:29] Another good example is improved relationships with your suppliers by having everything in one place. It's not about going to one system to check for the supplier to check whether they got paid all in one place. You can think about it. I received the order from the supplier. Did I get an invoice? I make a payment and you can communicate with the suppliers much more effectively. And as a result, your relationship with suppliers can get better also because you have a lot more visibility into what's happening from the entire spectrum, from a purchase order to a payment and having the. Visibility for you and your supplier can really improve your communication to suppliers. Those are just some examples of how a single one-stop shop can bring it all together. That probably many, many more. I can go on and on and on. But I just want to bring this to life with a few examples.

Grant Johnson, CMO at Emburse: [00:20:13] Those are great Rajeev and I can certainly see and covid times the increasing importance of having this visibility and communication improve the relationship with your largely operate in a virtual environment versus in person. Eric, can you share any examples of how you're handling this as a COO with a global company like Emburse?

Rajeev Subramanyam, SVP and GM at Emburse Pay: [00:20:35] Yeah, yeah. We've had to make the transition from operating an office to a virtual environment, just like a lot of different companies. And I think our software is really helping with that. You know, we make the software that a lot of companies are using to, you know, to bridge that transition. And, you know, sometimes we're like the cobbler's children without shoes. But I do think we're getting better in that respect and we're doing things now that we've been helping customers do for a long time. I think the thing that I'm most excited about is I mentioned this earlier, but we're updating our invoice processes with Chrome River, the Chrome River solution. And there's so many benefits there. One of the things I've always really had a strong distaste for is the, you know, the emails that you get for approvals of different invoices that, you know, require you to log in to an antiquated banking software and figure out what they're for and just so much time loss managing that kind of thing. And so we're we're correcting a lot of that. And, you know, we're using our new payments capabilities to eliminate check runs. I asked our finance department how much time they spent on the track runs. And, you know, the answer was, oh, not too much. You know, just something like six hours a check run. And, you know, that's that that actually should be unacceptable. So we're challenging our teams to expect a lot better. And so when it happened, we had finance staff, I think it was mentioned taking printers home and people going into office to pick up checks. And, you know, there's a lot of control issues around that kind of kind of a process. And so we're asking vendors to take more card payments, which helps them get cash upfront. And if that's not an option, we're moving days to ACH. So, you know, we're using the tools that we make more and more and more, and it's helping save a ton of time.

Grant Johnson, CMO at Emburse: [00:22:25] Well, thanks, Eric. It's great to see a company like Emburse able to automate and leverage our own software benefit. We have a lot of customers that are fairly large enterprises. Rajeev, can you talk a little bit about how this approach can scale? Can something like a virtual credit card to work on the long tail spend for a large company? And what about AP teams paying, let's say, thousands of invoices a month?

Rajeev Subramanyam, SVP and GM at Emburse Pay: [00:22:50] Yeah, the big benefit of payments and software converging, in fact, is scalability, automation, because all of your payments can be available at the access of a single click and you can consolidate and decide which payments you want to make and even batch payments and do it at once. So the automation actually and the scalability comes because of having the software to back your payment as opposed to payment in isolation, which could be caught on fire, which are very inefficient processes. And yes, virtual cards are a primary means and a growing means by which this is being accomplished. For companies of all sizes, big and small, the benefits are clear guards and that benefits both on the buyer side and on the supplier's side, because you do have to think about both constituents when you think about card acceptance. But there's a cost of doing business here. For buyers, the benefits of security and reconciliation are clear, as well as the ability to earn rebate rebates and also optimize the cash flow to the buyer. That's truly, truly lots of things you can accomplish by the use of budget guys. And the buyers are really, really eager to really use what you've got to have it again. On the supplier side, there is a cost consideration, but more and more suppliers also see the value of accepting what you've got, and that's in the form of improved security.

Rajeev Subramanyam, SVP and GM at Emburse Pay: [00:24:04] And also, in some cases, they're seeing accelerated payments to buyers using what you've got to supply actually gets paid faster. And finally, the burden of collecting payments from the buyer goes away if you kind of accept what you've got, because then you can really charge that card when available as opposed to following up with the buyer. So the suppliers are also seeing a tremendous amount of benefit of using such accounts. And one statistic which might be useful here is seventy-four percent of businesses, if they use check, had a fraud. But to watch and guess what, that number is only three percent, so that I think brings up to life about the security benefit on the buyer's side and the supply side. And so what would this benefit? What's happening is AP Teams don't have a worry about card on file. Because a virtual card, is a single-use token. They don't worry about giving somebody that card number. So one-time, single-Use number. And then it can also be integrated into software and it can make payment with the click. So more and more suppliers are accepting this because of the security reasons and all the other reasons I mentioned. So the virtual cards can work for everybody. But in the context of virtual cards being enabled within software, which is enabling the automation and scale,

Grant Johnson, CMO at Emburse: [00:25:14] Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, it sounds like a win-win-win for the buyer, the supplier, the finance department. It all comes together for the benefit of everyone. One of the episodes we're going to look into in the future is really around the planning, a return to work and in the new way that will be. So, Eric, I was wondering what are some of these key trends companies should keep in mind as the workplace begins to evolve coming out of covid?

Eric White, COO at Emburse: [00:25:41] Yes, I'm hearing a couple of things, Grant. I had a customer tell me the other day that they're thinking about employee and they spend experience as a way to win the war for talent. This particular company, their employees spend about seventy-five percent of the time remote and they a lot of them are on the road and they were actually planning to add two thousand people in 2021. And what they're seeing, and I think a lot of us will see, is the labor market, particularly for certain roles, is really tightening and it's getting harder to hire for certain hiring positions. And so I see that trend really only growing this year and providing leaders and actionable spending sites and putting them in a position to make better decisions is one way that we're working to humanize work for for the mobile workforce. And I really like that particular leader's line of thinking in terms of winning the war for talent. I think it's pretty enlightened and I think we can all learn from it. And I know our our own CFO here at Emburse, they're thinking through how to make the AP process more resilient. You know, we got fewer manual processes, less dependencies on a single person, you know, that sort of thing. And then I think the big thing that a lot of companies are thinking about right now in terms of spend management is "when's travel going to return," we're going to return. That's a it's a pretty big line item for a lot of us. And I personally, I miss the employee connection. I think it adds a lot of value to culture and to a company. And a year into a pandemic, we're actually starting to see productivity rates fall on. The feds came out with some numbers last month that we're interesting. So I think travel plays a big role in creating collaborative cultures, and we're missing that right now. And I'm really looking forward to bringing that back.

Grant Johnson, CMO at Emburse: [00:27:30] Yeah, I think a lot of people join in that sentiment. Here's a question for both of you is how does employee experience you touch on a little bit, but how does it fit into this equation?

Eric White, COO at Emburse: [00:27:40] Yeah, you know, it's interesting. at Emburse our net promoter score. NPS went up by about twenty points during covid. And you know, if you're not familiar with NPS or net promoter score, that's actually quite a lot. So we got lucky and that we had the systems and a culture that was really well suited for remote work. So again, it's a complicated question for employees in the financial office. We're all about humanizing their experience and building systems that really enable us to increase the productivity for themselves and, you know, and for their companies. And so I'm really happy to be a part of that.

Rajeev Subramanyam, SVP and GM at Emburse Pay: [00:28:15] Yeah. If I were to add on to that. AP in payments, automation is all about humanizing experience, making the process as streamlined as possible for everyone so that employees can focus on value-added services rather than chasing payments. Like 30 percent of AP payments. Time is spent on chasing payments on supplier calls. So it's very inefficient. Who wants to go back to that? Right, even in the post-covid world. So as you're going to work on to preserve then automation, benefit of that and focus on value added services and then to the point of long-tail spend with the broader employee organization. They've now gotten used to buying things a certain way and we hope to preserve some of that and not having to go back to, hey, you have to sign off on this, but preserving some of the gains in terms of what we solved through the pandemic, how can we preserve that to sustain and even improve the employee experience as they come back to the office of government? Why not still have services and solutions like that which allows productivity to increase dramatically and satisfaction increase? And we expect like not everybody will return to work. There's going to be a hybrid environment. Some people will come in a couple of days up in the office. So it's going to be a blended environment. So we do need to preserve the best of solutions in the corporate world and enable that in the new post-covid world.

Grant Johnson, CMO at Emburse: [00:29:28] Yeah, that makes a lot of sense as we're navigating our way forward. Is there one final? Piece of advice, Rajeev, you have to our listeners who are contemplating automating AP payments.

Rajeev Subramanyam, SVP and GM at Emburse Pay: [00:29:39] Yeah, look, I understand that it may have been thought of as a big lift, and historically that is absolutely true. But hopefully many of you saw the necessity of that during the Covid times. So the time is definitely now don't put it off anymore at the Ottawa is very, very, very clear on making these decisions. And as we talked about, the employee experience itself is going to be clearly improved as well. So in the post-covid world where you cut costs to manage benefits for employees, this is a great time to invest in a solution, an integrated offering such that they offer a one-stop solution to think about whether you want a piecemeal solution or you want a one-stop shop. And, ultimately seek the solution what's best for you. But technology is really, really enabled a lot of interesting ways to optimize the work forward and make experience better. So make a decision now. And I know I talk about e-commerce acceleration at the beginning of this call. This is a time where some of the habits will change forever. So take advantage of the moment in time in a positive way and make an impact on the business. And the employees

Grant Johnson, CMO at Emburse: [00:30:43] Well, no time like the present for sure. Eric and Rajeev, thanks so much for talking with us today. It's been very informative and illuminating.

Rajeev Subramanyam, SVP and GM at Emburse Pay: [00:30:52] Thank you.

Grant Johnson, CMO at Emburse: [00:30:53] I will invite our listeners to stay tuned for our next Emburse on the Mic episode, where we're going to find out more how to gain the unique insights into the travel, expense, payments, and accounts payable spending patterns. And if you'd like to learn more about Emburse, please visit us at Emburse.com. Or send us a note to hi@Emburse.com. HI@Emburse.com. And we'll talk to you next time.